From: owner-frc-digest To: frc-digest@nvg.unit.no Subject: frc-digest V1 #300 Reply-To: frc Errors-To: owner-frc-digest Precedence: bulk frc-digest Wednesday, 13 September 1995 Volume 01 : Number 300 44:1 judgement 44-3 Didn't I tell you I could find a wrong way to do anything? Re: 44-3 Rule 44:2 judgement Rule 44:3 judgement On allowing the judge to post 1st rule Re: 44-3 Re: Round 44 begins Re: 44:1 judgement Rule 44:4 Re: Round 44 begins Re: Round 44 begins Re: Round 44 begins Re: Round 44 begins New FRC record Re: New FRC record Re: New FRC record Re: Rule 44:4 Re: Round 44 begins Re: Rule 44:4 Rule 44:4 the second Rule 44:4 Re: Rule 44:4 Re: Rule 44:4 Re: Rule 44:4 Re: Rule 44:4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter@WOLFE.net (Peter Sarrett) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:12:28 -0700 Subject: 44:1 judgement Rule 44:1 Dug VALID -2.0 points - --- >>> RULE 44:1 <<< Attention! Attention! May I have your attention, please!? Thank you. As Chair of the ... Excuse me, someone's still talking. You can talk all you want on your time, but this is _my_ time. However, if you'd like to make this _your_ time, I'd be happy to extend _my_ time into recess ... Alright, then. As Chair pro temp, I, World's Greatest Teacher, hereby officially open this meeting of the Foyer of Justice. First, I'd like to thank my sidekick, Teacher's Pet, for that pre-meeting tribute to our founders, Jan and Jana. Let's all show our appreciation for The Pet, by giving her a round of applause. We have gathered tonight to draw up a list of rules for our super-group. Before we begin, however, I need to remind you of a few groundrules. First of all, the only ones allowed to submit rules are those super-beings which share our fate: somewhat normal people with abnormal powers which aren't particularly helpful. My ability to sharpen pencils in my nose, for instance. Second of all, for the purposes of record-keeping, we ask that each super-being identify him or herself when submitting a rule. That's it for the groundrules, I now open the floor for submissions ... Uh, uh! Remember how we do this! When the hand goes up, the mouth goes shut. Now, who has a rule? Anyone? Anyone? ... >>> END <<< - --- VALIDITY: With the Wizard trap gone, it's virtually impossible to screw up the first rule. Nevertheless, Dug skated very close to the line here. Jan and Jana [sic] refers to the Wonder Twins, who could shapechange-- a fairly useful ability, contrary to the World's Greatest Teacher's claim of non-helpful powers for the group. As the founders of this group, they are presumably members. However, they could be dead, and thus not share in "our fate" of having non-helpful powers. STYLE: This rule a) is needlessly long for a first rule, b) would better fit a round titled "Sillyheroes", c) has a couple of nit-picky errors in its allusions (it's Jayna, not Jana; the Foyer of Justice alludes to the Hall of Justice, which was a meeting place, not a supergroup-- the group was the Justice League or the Superfriends), and d) is full of loopholes, particularly in the use/context of the word "rule". Perhaps I'm being overly harsh, in which case I duly apologize. Chalk it up to a different idea of where the round might go. - Peter ------------------------------ From: rchatham@math.utk.edu (Doug Chatham) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:15:54 -0500 Subject: 44-3 I am Captain "Wrong-Way" Murphy, gifted with the ability to find a wrong way to do anything. Since I am also directionally challenged, my rule is: future rules shall not use words that indicate any particular direction. (Oh, by the way, in real life I'm Doug Chatham. Oops, there goes another secret identity!) Doug Chatham Email: rchatham@math.utk.edu 3500 Sutherland Avenue Apt. I-201 dougchat@aol.com Knoxville TN 37919 chatham@utkvx.utk.edu etc. "Let me tell you, there are many perks to being the mother of a living god!" - --- The Traveller, to Dr. Crusher, shortly after _Journey's End_. ------------------------------ From: rchatham@math.utk.edu (Doug Chatham) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:27:17 -0500 Subject: Didn't I tell you I could find a wrong way to do anything? I forgot about the signature file. 43:3 should end after "identity!)" I did not intend my signature to be part of my fantasy rule. Doug Chatham Email: rchatham@math.utk.edu 3500 Sutherland Avenue Apt. I-201 dougchat@aol.com Knoxville TN 37919 chatham@utkvx.utk.edu etc. "Let me tell you, there are many perks to being the mother of a living god!" - --- The Traveller, to Dr. Crusher, shortly after _Journey's End_. ------------------------------ From: Don Blaheta Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 20:51:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: 44-3 Dug sez: > I am Captain "Wrong-Way" Murphy, gifted with the ability to find a wrong way > to do anything. Since I am also directionally challenged, my > rule is: future rules shall not use words that indicate any particular > direction. Didn't I just say I wanted to avoid another person/persona round? I'm sure I just said I wanted to avoid another person/persona round. Vanyel - -=-=-=-Don Blaheta-=-=-=-blahedo@quincy.edu-=-=-=-dblaheta@aol.com-=-=-=- You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back. ------------------------------ From: peter@wolfe.net (Peter Sarrett) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:32:33 -0700 Subject: Rule 44:2 judgement Rule 44:2 Vanyel VALID -1.5 points >>>>> As Computer Language Guy, I, Don Blaheta, require that Ummm... Yes? No more technical stuff, please? I mean, like math or computer languages. I'm not good at that stuff. Oh. Well, that wasn't going to be my restriction, but that's such a good idea, I'll make that my restriction. >>>>> VALIDITY: No problems. In fact, Vanyel does more than he has to. STYLE: Short, but confusing. This seems to be a conversation between two people, but some indication of who's speaking when would have been helpful. "Technical stuff" is pretty vague. And exactly WHAT is this restricting? ------------------------------ From: peter@wolfe.net (Peter Sarrett) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:38:40 -0700 Subject: Rule 44:3 judgement Rule 44:3 Doug VALID 0 points - --- I am Captain "Wrong-Way" Murphy, gifted with the ability to find a wrong way to do anything. Since I am also directionally challenged, my rule is: future rules shall not use words that indicate any particular direction. (Oh, by the way, in real life I'm Doug Chatham. Oops, there goes another secret identity!) - --- VALIDITY: No problems. STYLE: I was going to offer half a point for linking the restriction to Captain Murphy's superpower, but then thought that Doug should have better mastery of his mailer by now. Then I realized that including the signature as part of his rule was a wrong way to post a rule, which is in keeping with Captain Murphy's idiom. Alas, Doug then asked that his signature not be part of the rule, so I settled on 0. =) - Peter ------------------------------ From: Stein.Kulseth@TF.telenor.no Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:32:27 +0200 Subject: On allowing the judge to post 1st rule I don't like this idea neither. It seems somehow unaesthetical and, more important, unneccesary. If the theme depends crucially on some first rule, then the judge may propose it as an overrule and start the round after it passes (which it probably will if it is any good). On style-points determining winner as well as wizard: No no no, as far as I'm concerned. - -- Stein stein.kulseth@tf.telenor.no G=Stein;S=Kulseth;O=TF;P=telenor;A=telemax;C=no; http://www.nta.no/brukere/stein ------------------------------ From: Stein.Kulseth@TF.telenor.no Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:43:38 +0200 Subject: Re: 44-3 Vanyel: > Didn't I just say I wanted to avoid another person/persona round? I'm > sure I just said I wanted to avoid another person/persona round. Actually not, you said you'd hate to have another persona/player round, which may be slightly different. Also, Vanyel says: > Dug sez: Nope, that was Doug, not Dug. - -- Stein stein.kulseth@tf.telenor.no G=Stein;S=Kulseth;O=TF;P=telenor;A=telemax;C=no; http://www.nta.no/brukere/stein ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:33:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Round 44 begins Gregory J. Weidman 703-329-4331 said: - -> - -> Rather, we should consider other tangible benefits - -> for being the wizard. - -> - -> Perhaps we should change the goal of the game from - -> being the last eligible player (often the last - -> to get bored or hopelessly frustrated) to the player - -> with the highest style points. This way, the - -> Wizard is the Judge is the winner. If there is - -> support for this idea, I'll post it as a proposal. - -> I would oppose that most strongly. Style points are too objective to be used as a basis for something so significant. PS Is it necessary to have your phone number as part of your name??? - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "I always keep one big file in case I run out of space." A colleague of mine ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:39:48 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: 44:1 judgement - -> Jan and Jana [sic] refers to the - -> Wonder Twins, who could shapechange - -> [...] - -> (it's Jayna, not Jana; the Foyer of Justice alludes to the Hall of Justice, - -> which - -> was a meeting place, not a supergroup-- the group was the Justice League or - -> the Superfriends), - -> What's everyone talking about? - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "I always keep one big file in case I run out of space." A colleague of mine ------------------------------ From: "Laurent Bossavit" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:55:15 +0000 Subject: Rule 44:4 - --[Rule 44:4]-- Hah ! The fools ! What do they hope to achieve ? A meeting of super-beings indeed ! Super-wimps, you mean ! Little do they know that, hidden in the rafters, the Practical Joker is listening to their every word ! Let's alert them to the fact of their imminent demise, shall we ? Hmm, yes, a Super Stink Bomb should do. I only hope this one won't turn out to smell of lavender like the last one did... <> Now, how's _that_ for a rule, eh eh eh eh... [Evil cackle] - --[Rule End]-- No comment, eh eh eh eh... Morendil ------------------------------ From: "Laurent Bossavit" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:55:15 +0000 Subject: Re: Round 44 begins Peter wrote : > Well, I don't see any reason to award style points to a letter of > the alphabet (sorry, a personal pet peeve of mine-- I find the use > of "e", "eir", et. al. to be unnatural, forced, and jarring). Oh ? I find it, on the contrary, a very interesting extension to English grammar... ------------------------------ From: "Laurent Bossavit" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:55:15 +0000 Subject: Re: Round 44 begins > I would vote against any proposal to permit the judge to post rules. > Who would award e style points? Rather, we should consider other > tangible benefits for being the wizard. Well, I kinda liked the 'known and adressed as' RO, but _that_ got fixed. :) > Perhaps we should change the goal of the game from being the last > eligible player (often the last to get bored or hopelessly > frustrated) to the player with the highest style points. This way, > the Wizard is the Judge is the winner. If there is support for this > idea, I'll post it as a proposal. I don't like it. It would radically pervert the 'Nomic' identity of FRC, wherein the object of the game is to post the last valid rule (not quite that under our eligibility rules, but more or less still). Anyway, the last eligible player is often the one who's managed to post most rules, so if e's any good e's cumulated quite a few SPs. > P.S. I think a quick survey would show that I have the least style > of any player in recent memory. I think for the two rounds I've > played in I have a total of -4 style points. Not something I'm > proud of, but there seems to be a significantly different esthetic > in operation here than I would expect. Maybe we need to reconsider the ROs concerning SPs. Perhaps the Judge could freely give out -2 to 2 SPs, with fixed SPs for important issues, such as brevity or spelling. ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:17:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Round 44 begins Laurent Bossavit said: - -> - -> Maybe we need to reconsider the ROs concerning SPs. Perhaps the Judge - -> could freely give out -2 to 2 SPs, with fixed SPs for important - -> issues, such as brevity or spelling. - -> The important issues stay the same from round to round? I have been known to do as you suggest for individual rounds, but I don't think any fixed set of criteria can work in general. - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "I always keep one big file in case I run out of space." A colleague of mine ------------------------------ From: "Gregory J. Weidman 703-329-4331" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Round 44 begins Stephen Turner Asks: >Gregory J. Weidman 703-329-4331 said: > >PS Is it necessary to have your phone number as part of your name??? > No, not at all. I was not aware that my phone number was being broadcast as part of my name. You have to understand, however, that I have very little control over such things. We have here a corporate structure that is (quite reasonably) obsessive about security issues. They don't always get their priorities right. My mailing address actually sends messages to a computer that I am not allowed to log-on to. We then have special software that runs on a Win-tel on my desk and connects to the mail service provider. At any rate, I actually don't have any control over how my name appears when broadcast. I will speak to our network manager about getting this changed. Regards, Greg Weidman ------------------------------ From: Stein.Kulseth@TF.telenor.no Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 15:20:10 +0200 Subject: New FRC record On writing the round 43 entry in the FRC web page, I checked previous rounds and found that Wizard Peter's 12 style points is indeed a new FRC record. Kudos to the Wizard for a very stylish round and a very well deserved record. The previous record was held by Waggie, with 11 SPs for round 24 (the Zuber round). - -- Stein stein.kulseth@tf.telenor.no G=Stein;S=Kulseth;O=TF;P=telenor;A=telemax;C=no; http://www.nta.no/brukere/stein ------------------------------ From: Dave Wagner Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:38:49 -0400 Subject: Re: New FRC record Hi, all! Long time no e. Having just seen my handle in print, I guess it's time to delurk and offer my congratulations to Wizard Peter for topping my SP record. "Congratulations, Wizard Peter!" Cheers! Waggie ------------------------------ From: peter@wolfe.net (Peter Sarrett) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:20:02 -0700 Subject: Re: New FRC record >Having just seen my handle in print, I guess it's time to delurk and offer >my congratulations to Wizard Peter for topping my SP record. Well, I couldn't really have done it without Dug, who was kind enough to give me mondo points. And how do I repay him? -2 on his first rule. Muahahahaha. - Wizard Judge ------------------------------ From: peter@wolfe.net (Peter Sarrett) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:29:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Rule 44:4 Rule 44:4 Morendil VALID 0.5 point - --- Hah ! The fools ! What do they hope to achieve ? A meeting of super-beings indeed ! Super-wimps, you mean ! Little do they know that, hidden in the rafters, the Practical Joker is listening to their every word ! Let's alert them to the fact of their imminent demise, shall we ? Hmm, yes, a Super Stink Bomb should do. I only hope this one won't turn out to smell of lavender like the last one did... <> Now, how's _that_ for a rule, eh eh eh eh... [Evil cackle] - --- VALIDITY: After some thought, I decided that "in" and "out" are not directions here. But I will warn people to be careful in the future, as I will probably become much less forgiving on that issue. STYLE: Inevitably, the first super villain arrives (and apparently, one of his special abilities involves liposuction). Had the restriction been stronger or more in keeping with his style, you would have earned more. - Peter Morendil: Why do you put a space between the end of a sentence and your punctuation for that sentence? I'm doubt grammarians or typesetters would say that's kosher. ------------------------------ From: "Laurent Bossavit" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:12:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Round 44 begins > -> Maybe we need to reconsider the ROs concerning SPs. Perhaps the Judge > -> could freely give out -2 to 2 SPs, with fixed SPs for important > -> issues, such as brevity or spelling. > -> > > The important issues stay the same from round to round? I have been known to > do as you suggest for individual rounds, but I don't think any fixed set of > criteria can work in general. I certainly agree; still, if we feel that the Judge's powers regarding SPs should somehow be restricted, that would be the way to go. Maybe we can have a chart of SP "rewards" and "punishments" added to the ROs as just guidelines for the Judge to follow or ignore as e sees fit. ------------------------------ From: "Laurent Bossavit" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:15:40 +0000 Subject: Re: Rule 44:4 > Morendil: Why do you put a space between the end of a sentence and your > punctuation for that sentence? I'm doubt grammarians or typesetters would > say that's kosher. Well, there seem to be different typographic rules on the two sides of the Atlantic. Either that, or I'm in error. :) I'll check my copies of the relevant texts. ------------------------------ From: "Gregory J. Weidman" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rule 44:4 the second Oops, I intended that to be rule 44:5. Typo! - -Greg Weidman P.S. At one point during the Western Schism, there was an anti-pope calling himself "Benedict XIV the Second". ------------------------------ From: "Gregory J. Weidman" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rule 44:4 Look! There in the Sky! It's a Bird! It's a Plane! Oh, It's a Bird. Yes, folks, it is I, Mr. Bird-man. Now maybe I don't fly as high as that OTHER superhero, but I've got something he doesn't have: A secret decoder ring! You, too, can have this a ring JUST LIKE MINE for only Five Boxtops, Four Bottle-bottoms, Three Wrappers, Two coupons, and One Thin Dime. What!??! A decoder ring sounds to you like technical stuff like math or computer science NOT AT ALL. This is CRYPTOGRAPHY! Listen, just this once, even though you haven't sent in your boxtops, I'll give you a hint how the code works: A=q, B=g, C=d, E=3, F=r, etc. Perhaps this is a qwerty code, but that's just our secret. h92k 3f346 47o3 j7w5 yqf3 q5 o3qw5 9h3 w3h53hd3 248553h 8h 5y8w d9e3l ...... - -Greg Weidman ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 18:35:04 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Rule 44:4 Laurent Bossavit said: - -> - -> > Morendil: Why do you put a space between the end of a sentence and your - -> > punctuation for that sentence? I'm doubt grammarians or typesetters would - -> > say that's kosher. - -> - -> Well, there seem to be different typographic rules on the two sides - -> of the Atlantic. Either that, or I'm in error. :) I'll check my - -> copies of the relevant texts. - -> Error, I think. As far as I know, thee is no space before a punctuation mark in any variety of English. - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "I always keep one big file in case I run out of space." A colleague of mine ------------------------------ From: Orjan Johansen Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:19:00 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Rule 44:4 On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Gregory J. Weidman wrote: > h92k > 3f346 47o3 j7w5 yqf3 q5 o3qw5 9h3 w3h53hd3 248553h 8h > 5y8w d9e3l > ...... > -Greg Weidman Looks like it's going to be a short round. Greetings, Oerjan. - -- Help! I am trapped in a .sig and can't get out! ------------------------------ From: Don Blaheta Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:24:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Rule 44:4 Darn. I knew I forgot to include something in my restriction... Vanyel - -=-=-=-Don Blaheta-=-=-=-blahedo@quincy.edu-=-=-=-dblaheta@aol.com-=-=-=- CChheecckk yyoouurr dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh.. ------------------------------ From: Bruce Jones Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 11:42:01 TZ Subject: Re: Rule 44:4 >> h92k >> 3f346 47o3 j7w5 yqf3 q5 o3qw5 9h3 w3h53hd3 248553h 8h >> 5y8w d9e3l >> ...... >> -Greg Weidman > Looks like it's going to be a short round. Actually, I have a feeling that our Esteemed Judge will render this rule invalid. In the past he has interpreted "3f346 47o3" rather strictly. I don't know if "h92" will change its meaning to him sufficiently. > Greetings, > Oerjan. - - Bruce ------------------------------ End of frc-digest V1 #300 *************************