From: owner-frc-digest To: frc-digest@nvg.unit.no Subject: frc-digest V1 #202 Reply-To: frc Errors-To: owner-frc-digest Precedence: bulk frc-digest Thursday, 25 May 1995 Volume 01 : Number 202 FRC: a mailing list for learning Re: your mail Re: Peter's List (updated) Re: Peter's List (updated) PA6 et al. This weekend PA6 fails 36:3 Re: your mail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dug@pobox.com (Douglas R. Steen) Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 13:20:37 -0700 Subject: FRC: a mailing list for learning At 09:40 PM 5/24/95 +0200, Stein.Kulseth@TF.telenor.no wrote: >I always thought that there was a slight difference between 'for instance' >and 'e.g.' (what does e.g. really mean btw?). That you use 'for instance' >pretty much in the same way as 'like', like in sentences where you point to >an example, drawn at random from a possibly large set. >Whereas I thought 'e.g.' was used pretty much the same way as 'that is', >that is when you want to point to a specific example which is felt to >be important. from my on-line dictionary: e.g. abbreviation Exempli gratia. i.e. abbreviation Latin. Id est (that is). So it looks like e.g. is "for example" (which I assume is like "for instance"), whereas i.e. means "that is" (or "in other words"). >Of course I'm Norwegian... And I speak American. =) -Dug - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Douglas R. Steen "Internet for Teachers, by Teachers" Seattle, WA ** coming this fall ** http://www.halcyon.com/ResPress/teacher.htm - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Don Blaheta Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 18:12:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: your mail Stein sez: > Dug says: > > Sounds good to me, though I've never seen "fi" before. For instance? > > Could we write out "for instance" or use e.g.? I thought it was a typo. > > Anything is OK if it makes the language better. > I always thought that there was a slight difference between 'for instance' > and 'e.g.' (what does e.g. really mean btw?). That you use 'for instance' > pretty much in the same way as 'like', like in sentences where you point to > an example, drawn at random from a possibly large set. > Whereas I thought 'e.g.' was used pretty much the same way as 'that is', > that is when you want to point to a specific example which is felt to > be important. I'm not exactly sure what e.g. stands for, but I've always used it synonymously with "for instance". OTOH, there is i.e., which stands for "id est" which is Latin for "that is". I've always used i.e. when I've got a parenthetical remark which further explains a previous statement, and e.g. inside a parenthetical remark which gives examples. "For instance" is what I use outside of parenthetical remarks to give examples (also "for example") and "that is" is what I use outside of parentheticals to explain something (also "in other words" or IOW). > Of course I'm Norwegian... So what? We'll forgive you. ( ;) > Oh, yeah, BTW, Vanyel just wrote: > > Control-H and Control-? as well...) Which means that fi right now, I > ^^ Er. I did that on purpose. :) > -- Stein stein.kulseth@tf.telenor.no > G=Stein;S=Kulseth;O=TF;P=telenor;A=telemax;C=no; > http://www.nta.no/brukere/stein I've been meaning to ask for ages now... what do G, S, O, P, A, and C stand for in your sig? I would guess first, last, computer, domain, and country for GSOP & C, but I haven't the faintest idea what A is then.... Vanyel - -=-=-=-Don Blaheta-=-=-=-blahedo@quincy.edu-=-=-=-dblaheta@aol.com-=-=-=- $3,000,000 ------------------------------ From: Bill Adlam Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 00:13:56 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Peter's List (updated) On Wed, 24 May 1995 Stein.Kulseth@TF.telenor.no wrote: > Anything is OK if it makes the language better. > I always thought that there was a slight difference between 'for instance' > and 'e.g.' (what does e.g. really mean btw?). That you use 'for instance' > pretty much in the same way as 'like', like in sentences where you point to > an example, drawn at random from a possibly large set. > Whereas I thought 'e.g.' was used pretty much the same way as 'that is', > that is when you want to point to a specific example which is felt to > be important. E.g. means 'for example' and AFAIK isn't an acronym. Probably it was originally 'eg.', short for 'example' phonetically, and picked up another stop/period somehow. It is frequently misused, though, in place of 'i.e.' for 'id est', which is Latin for 'that is'. Notes for pedants: the punctuation of my first sentence makes its meaning quite clear, thank you very much. And I have placed quotation marks in the logical places, rather than where grammar strictly dictates. Sagitta ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Thu, 25 May 95 9:05:40 BST Subject: Re: Peter's List (updated) Stein writes: - -> I always thought that there was a slight difference between 'for instance' - -> and 'e.g.' (what does e.g. really mean btw?). That you use 'for instance' - -> pretty much in the same way as 'like', like in sentences where you point to - -> an example, drawn at random from a possibly large set. - -> Whereas I thought 'e.g.' was used pretty much the same way as 'that is', - -> that is when you want to point to a specific example which is felt to - -> be important. - -> No, you're getting confused between e.g. and i.e. (as indeed many native English speakers seem to). e.g. = exempli gratia = for example = for instance i.e. = id est = that is "I saw the Lucasian professor, i.e. Stephen Hawking, in Cambridge yesterday." "Many Cambridge mathematicians, e.g. Stephen Hawking, have become world famous." - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "10 or 11 degrees C in the south: that's double figures" (ITV Weathercaster) ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Thu, 25 May 95 9:15:12 BST Subject: PA6 et al. Well, I am having an easy time as judge this week. The vote on PA6 closes in about 4 hours time. The result so far: PROPOSAL PA6 - permanent RO2 appendment, Vote ends Thu May 25nd 12:31 >>>> Replace Regular Ordinance 2 by: "2. Membership. Any person may become a member of this committee by posting in the committee forum a statement of intent to join. A new member may not vote on Proposals, before e has legally posted a Fantasy Rule. A member may resign from the committee at any time." >>>> For 5: Ronald, Stein, Sagitta, Andre, Vanyel Aga 4: Dave, Peter, Alyxx, Dug - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "10 or 11 degrees C in the south: that's double figures" (ITV Weathercaster) ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Thu, 25 May 95 14:34:57 BST Subject: This weekend A very strange thing has happened. I only go to backgammon tournaments 4 times a year, but they've fallen a week after I've started judging the last 3 times. The reason I'm telling you this is that I shall be away from Friday evening until Monday morning, so if you want any rules to be judged before the end of the first week, you have to submit them within the next 24 hours or so. - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "10 or 11 degrees C in the south: that's double figures" (ITV Weathercaster) ------------------------------ From: Stephen Turner Date: Thu, 25 May 95 15:31:36 BST Subject: PA6 fails Proposal PA6 has failed: PROPOSAL PA6 - permanent RO2 appendment, Vote ended Thu May 25nd 12:31 >>>> Replace Regular Ordinance 2 by: "2. Membership. Any person may become a member of this committee by posting in the committee forum a statement of intent to join. A new member may not vote on Proposals, before e has legally posted a Fantasy Rule. A member may resign from the committee at any time." >>>> For 5: Ronald, Stein, Sagitta, Andre, Vanyel Aga 4: Dave, Peter, Alyxx, Dug PROPOSAL FAILED So the ROs are still as I sent them out on Monday. - -- Stephen R. E. Turner Stochastic Networks Group, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge e-mail: sret1@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/home.html "10 or 11 degrees C in the south: that's double figures" (ITV Weathercaster) ------------------------------ From: gillcp@VNET.IBM.COM Date: Thu, 25 May 95 16:31:24 BST Subject: 36:3 Well, here goes. It's 29 lines long, but it does address the length problem. It looks like I won't need to post a legal rule to remain a member after all, but it occurred to me that this round had ground to a bit of a halt, so I thought I'd have a go. My first rule - who knows, maybe it'll be valid! >>>rule start>>> It is of course well known that the despised Vr'hai villain Ki'Huk put forward the theory that the method of critical differences was a load of rubbish. Faced with this internal threat to their society Vr'hai elders had to chose between tolerance and expulsion of the villain since the critical difference was of type 36.3 which arbitrates between the destruction and survival of the Vr'hai culture. The relevant consequences are as follows. In the first case (tolerance): the possibility of personal reform of the villain; of social reform within the Vr'hai culture; and of revolution. In the second case (expulsion): the possibility of the martyring of the villain (including expulsion by execution); of his raising of a hostile army; and of a peaceful continuation of the Vr'hai culture. It was decided by the Vr'hai elders to expel Ki'Huk (by exile) from the tribe, believing that peaceful continuation of the Vr'hai culture would result. Unfortunately Ki'Huk in fact settled on a nearby island where he founded the Ki'lem tribe which is sworn to the destruction of the Vr'hai. In stark contrast to the Vr'hai, the Ki'lem dislike extended decision making processes. They believe in shorter theories, and their patience tends to decrease exponentially over time. Persons ignoring this ethic of Ki'lem culture have paid with their lives. In deference to Ki'lem culture the length of rules in this round shall not exceed 1000+20000*e^(-n) characters, that is 1000 plus 20000 times the natural exponential of minus n, where n is the rule number (as in 36:n). Fortunately the Ki'lem alphabet is much more straight forward than that of the Vr'hai and in fact corresponds exactly with the ascii character set. New rules shall also contain a mathematical formula relevant to an aspect of Ki'lem culture not discussed in previous rules. >>>>rule end>>>> Info: According to my computer this rule is 1871 characters long, and restricts itself to <= 1995. Rule 36:2 was 3463 <= 3706. Sorry about the silly maths bit, but I was trying to get something which shrinks quickly then levels off. 36:4 will have to be <= 1366 characters, 36:5 <= 1134. Of course, invalid rules will still curtail the length of rules proposed after them. Chris. ------------------------------ From: Stein.Kulseth@TF.telenor.no Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:19:47 +0200 Subject: Re: your mail > I've been meaning to ask for ages now... what do G, S, O, P, A, and C > stand for in your sig? I would guess first, last, computer, domain, > and country for GSOP & C, but I haven't the faintest idea what A is > then.... Well it's the preferred way of X.400 addressing (but I suspect you have to be a computer to really prefer a nigh-unparsable list to a visually uncomplicated who@where syntax). G - Given name S - Surname O - Organization P - (or PRMD) Private Domain A - (or ADMD) Administrative Domain C - Country The syntax also allows OU - Organisation unit ( also OU1, OU2, OU3, OU4) GQ - which stands for something, and could contain extra name information e.g. 'jr'. ( ^^^^ using 'e.g.' correctly, probably for the first time...) - -- Stein stein.kulseth@tf.telenor.no G=Stein;S=Kulseth;O=TF;P=telenor;A=telemax;C=no; http://www.nta.no/brukere/stein ------------------------------ End of frc-digest V1 #202 *************************