From owner-frc@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 27 02:24:26 1997 Received: by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no id <49165-12132>; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:24:12 +0100 Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.68]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <49159-12132>; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:23:56 +0100 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:25:01 +0100 (MET) From: Orjan Johansen To: Fantasy Rules Committee Subject: Final Status Report Round 71 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-frc@nvg.ntnu.no Precedence: bulk Return-Path: Status: RO X-Status: [I am sending out this status report so you know officially how it ended and so that I have something to put at the top of the archive entry. (I decided to include a little bit of the discussion and so the entry will be in mail folder format rather than in summary format.)] It was a promising Round which ended when the Judge disappeared. The theme of Round 71 ended up as something like "Al the Android". The Judge was Ed Graham. Wizards were everyone except Ronald Kunne and Ed Graham Player Style ------ ----- Bill Maciejewski +.5 Dan Knapp +2.5 Winner and new Wizard Judge Harlequin +1.25 Ronald Kunne 0 71:1 Dan Knapp Valid +1 71:2 Ronald Kunne Valid 0 71:3 Dan Knapp Valid +1.5 71:4 Harlequin Invalid +1.25 71:5 Bill Maciejewski Valid +.5 71:6 Dan Knapp Valid (timeout) Greetings, Ørjan. From edg@juno.com Tue Dec 24 12:04:43 1996 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46937-8905>; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:04:33 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id HLM09810; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:03:50 EST To: frc@nvg.unit.no Subject: Round 71 Message-ID: <19961224.060658.4455.5.edg@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-10,12-16 From: edg@juno.com Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:03:50 EST Status: RO X-Status: I'm tempted, due to the date, to request something like "Holidays"; but I resist the temptation and instead offer the following suggestions: 1. What idf Shakespear were born in 1973? 2. How does electricity REALLY work? 3. Things I never wanted to know about ??? 4. 101 (or more) things to do with a computer. Due to the holidays, Round 71 will start on January 2, or whenever someone posts the first Rule. Merry Christmas, Happy Hannuka, and a very safe and merry New Year Ed Graham From dankna@davinci.bergen.org Tue Jan 14 21:33:20 1997 Received: from davinci.bergen.org ([168.229.3.2]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with SMTP id <46932-89>; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:32:33 +0000 Received: from [168.229.4.17] by davinci.bergen.org via SMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/951211.SGI) for id PAA17614; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:00:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:00:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199701142000.PAA17614@davinci.bergen.org> From: "Daniel Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz)" Reply-To: "Daniel Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz)" To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Rule 71:01 Status: RO X-Status: After this rule, all rules shall describe a device constructed using the device described in the previous rule. This rule starts the chain with : A fishtank constructed from a computer monitor. ------------------------------------------- Daniel Knapp Head Programmer dankna@bergen.org FeatherWate Software http://www.bergen.org/~dankna/FWS ------------------------------------------- I think that I shall never see, A poem as lovely as a joke. Indeed - unless the poems fall, I may never see a joke - at all. ------------------------------------------- From edg@juno.com Wed Jan 15 05:12:01 1997 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46932-89>; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 05:11:20 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id AKA19798; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:08:56 EST To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:57:59 PST Subject: Re: Rule 71:01 Message-ID: <19970114.230754.7343.17.edg@juno.com> References: <199701142000.PAA17614@davinci.bergen.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-13,15-17 From: edg@juno.com Status: RO X-Status: > After this rule, all rules shall describe a device constructed using >the >device described in the previous rule. > This rule starts the chain with : > A fishtank constructed from a computer monitor. > Judgement: Valid No Problems, seems straightforward. So far. Style: +1 Short, clear, and starts a unique chain without quite becoming a cliche. Ed From KUNNE@FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR Wed Jan 15 08:31:03 1997 Received: from frcpn11.in2p3.fr ([134.158.69.66]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with SMTP id <46930-87>; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:30:55 +0000 Received: from FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR by frcpn11.in2p3.fr (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2959; Wed, 15 Jan 97 09:31:29 MET Received: from FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR (NJE origin KUNNE@FRCPN11) by FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1914; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:31:29 +0100 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 09:25:23 MET From: KUNNE@frcpn11.in2p3.fr Organization: In2p3 Subject: Rule 71:2 To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Message-Id: <970115.093128.MET.KUNNE@FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR> Status: RO X-Status: >>>>>> >From this rule onwards, all rules shall describe a device constructed using the device described in the previous rule and some second object. An astronaut suit constructed from a fishtank and a sleeping bag. >>>>>> Ronald Kunne From edg@juno.com Thu Jan 16 02:49:51 1997 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46954-87>; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:49:39 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id V{C24775; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:47:49 EST To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:41:24 PST Subject: Re: Rule 71:2 Message-ID: <19970115.204706.7343.1.edg@juno.com> References: <970115.093128.MET.KUNNE@frcpn11.in2p3.fr> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,14-15,17-19 From: edg@juno.com Status: RO X-Status: >>From this rule onwards, all rules shall describe a device constructed >using >the device described in the previous rule and some second object. > >An astronaut suit constructed from a fishtank and a sleeping bag. >>>>>>> > >Ronald Kunne > Judgement: Valid. Using a "fishtank" made from a computer monitor to top a "spacesuit" made from a sleeping bag is probably reaching, but still in the same spirit as 71.1 Style: 0. Merely codifying that a second item be added to the first to come up with a new item is not that interesting a restriction. Ed Graham From dankna@bergen.org Wed Jan 15 10:04:09 1997 Received: from davinci.bergen.org ([168.229.3.2]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with SMTP id <46932-85>; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:03:22 +0000 Received: from [168.229.4.27] by davinci.bergen.org via SMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/951211.SGI) for id EAA01610; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 04:59:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 04:59:14 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no From: dankna@bergen.org (Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz)) Subject: Rule 71:3 Status: RO X-Status: >>>>> All rules from this one on shall describe the fashion in which the device described for the first time in the previous rule is intended to be used. Note that rule 71:1 refers to "the previous rule", not to "the previous valid rule". An android constructed from an astronaut suit and the ENDVAC computer looks quite odd, especially as the astronaut suit was originally intended to house a human astronaut. <<<<< ------------------------------------------- Daniel Knapp Head Programmer dankna@bergen.org FeatherWate Software http://www.bergen.org/~dankna/FWS ------------------------------------------- I think that I shall never see, A poem as lovely as a joke. Indeed - unless the poems fall, I may never see a joke - at all. ------------------------------------------- From edg@juno.com Thu Jan 16 21:14:27 1997 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46946-89>; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:13:25 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id Q|I22306; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:12:18 EST To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:22:41 PST Subject: Re: Rule 71:3 Message-ID: <19970116.151116.7343.2.edg@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-21,24-25,29-30,34-36 From: edg@juno.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>>>> > All rules from this one on shall describe the fashion in which the >device >described for the first time in the previous rule is intended to be >used. > > Note that rule 71:1 refers to "the previous rule", not to "the >previous >valid rule". > > An android constructed from an astronaut suit and the ENDVAC >computer >looks quite odd, especially as the astronaut suit was originally >intended >to house a human astronaut. ><<<<< > > Judgement: Valid. The restriction offered in the first paragraph is simple, yet tricky. I notice a nice possible loophole that may take the round in a slightly different direction, again. Style: +1.5 The simple elegance of the restriction, and the smooth, seamless way it was used at the end made me think thrice before deciding on this one. However, the "admonishment" in the second paragraph detracted from the overall appearance of the rule. BTW, I believe game custom has been established that "previous rule" does indeed mean "previous valid rule." Someone, please crrect me if I'm mistaken. I will hold off judging the next rules in anticipation of a great big flame by way of reply. Ed G From particle@servtech.com Wed Jan 15 14:14:37 1997 Received: from cyber1.servtech.com ([199.1.22.8]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46931-89>; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:14:11 +0000 Received: from LOCALNAME (lh1.roc.servtech.com [206.106.146.203]) by cyber1.servtech.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA12272 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:13:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:13:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701151413.JAA12272@cyber1.servtech.com> X-Sender: particle@cyber1.servtech.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Fantasy Rules Committee From: Joshua Hall-Bachner Subject: Rule 71:4 Status: RO X-Status: >>>>>>>>>>>> The android, while stacking boxes to be shipped out on the next space freighter (it's primary function), overheard his supervisors speaking in hushed tones. Turning on his secret Hearing Enhancing program (completely unofficial, of course) he managed to understand that they wanted to get rid of him, replace him with some brand new Model X-9642. As he listened intently to the sounds behind the wall, a worker for the loading bay snuck up behind eir and flipped eir offswitch. When the android reawoke, e found eirself inside what appeared to be a giant hamster wheel. Furthermore, all eir "vital systems" had been connected to the wheel in such a way that only by running and driving the wheel could e keep eirself alive! Oh, the horror! Out of respect for our poor android, all future rules shall describe one of the evil plots of the docking bay supervisors, and one of another person's attempts to foil said dastardly plans. >>>>>>>>>>>> /---------------------------Joshua Hall-Bachner---------------------------\ | particle@servtech.com http://www.servtech.com/public/particle/ | |"We all have our idiosyncracies -- maybe thinning hair, or gum disease." | \---- Kowanko, "Will You Come To?" ------ Thank You, And Goodnight. ------/ From edg@juno.com Thu Jan 16 23:28:04 1997 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46930-89>; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:27:30 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SNX22306; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:27:04 EST To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:26:00 PST Subject: Judging Message-ID: <19970116.172610.7343.16.edg@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-13,16-20 From: edg@juno.com Status: RO X-Status: I have just recieved two replies to my request on Game Custom; the feeling is unanimous that unless a rule states "future VALID rules" and all future rules are treated the same, regardless of validity. This makes my job both easier and more difficult in that I must take into account a rule's behavior in regards to rules that were susequently judged invalid, this often makes it more difficult to determine the validity later. I wish to state now, before offering a judgement on 71.4 that I intend to be fairly liberal in interpreting how a rule complies with a restriction in an unvalid rule, otherwise an obviously invalid rule may contain a restriction that could end the game. I will also state that once a rule is judged invalid, that rules submitted afterward do not haver to comply, otherwise, why have the validity judged at all. I realise this is already done, but in the wake of the discussion, and for the sake of future judgers and new players, I just weanted it in the record. On with the round. Ed G From edg@juno.com Fri Jan 17 02:23:05 1997 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46945-88>; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:22:52 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id VXM22306; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:19:43 EST To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:50:12 PST Subject: Re: Rule 71:4 Message-ID: <19970116.201751.7343.0.edg@juno.com> References: <199701151413.JAA12272@cyber1.servtech.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-30,33-34,36-38,42-44 From: edg@juno.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >The android, while stacking boxes to be shipped out on the next space >freighter (it's primary function), overheard his supervisors speaking >in >hushed tones. Turning on his secret Hearing Enhancing program >(completely >unofficial, of course) he managed to understand that they wanted to >get rid >of him, replace him with some brand new Model X-9642. As he listened >intently to the sounds behind the wall, a worker for the loading bay >snuck >up behind eir and flipped eir offswitch. > >When the android reawoke, e found eirself inside what appeared to be a >giant >hamster wheel. Furthermore, all eir "vital systems" had been connected >to >the wheel in such a way that only by running and driving the wheel >could e >keep eirself alive! Oh, the horror! > >Out of respect for our poor android, all future rules shall describe >one of >the evil plots of the docking bay supervisors, and one of another >person's >attempts to foil said dastardly plans. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Judgement: Invalid. While the story was wonderful, and the restriction clever (see style), there was no mention of any new device constructed with the android and some new object per 71.2 Two new objects and a new restriction appeared, but they were not enough to save this valiant effort. Style: +1.25. I like the way the rule took on a story appearance, and the restriction of a different plot and possible rescue from the previous plot really grabbed me. Would have grabbed me better if the rule had turned out better. Ed G From wmmaci@vims.edu Wed Jan 15 14:56:10 1997 Received: from back.vims.edu ([139.70.2.111]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with SMTP id <46931-87>; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:55:44 +0000 Received: from ware.vims.edu (ware.vims.EDU [139.70.2.122]) by back.vims.edu (8.6.12/) with ESMTP id JAA02932 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:55:29 -0500 From: William Maciejewski Received: (wmmaci@localhost) by ware.vims.edu (8.6.12/) id JAA03443 for frc@nvg.ntnu.no; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:55:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:55:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199701151455.JAA03443@ware.vims.edu> To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Rule 71:5 Status: RO X-Status: The next morning our android (who shall be henceforth known as "Al") was powered back up (the evil dock supervisor, in a fit of rare charity, had decided to give Al a break at nights by shutting him off) to discover to his renewed horror that his hamster wheel had been attached to a huge rotating bin full of numbered balls. Al had been incorporated into a huge lottery number generator, in the dock supervisor's scheme to rook lottery players out of their money by giving them random numbers to play! Unbeknownst to the supervisor, however, an unknown operative had replaced all the balls with the number "42," thereby foiling his scheme. Since not everything can go wrong for our poor Al, all rules must include something that goes right for him personally (e.g. the nightly break in this rule). -bill #*=--- - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----=*# William Maciejewski wmmaci@cs.wm.edu silly & boring homepage: http://cs.wm.edu/~wmmaci/index.html Computer Science grad @ William and Mary / Grad Asst at VIMS "Sleepless": a new progrock show: 90.7 FM Wmsburg VA Wed 6-9pm Heuristics Inc.: improv-sequenced-electronic-ambient-industrial? #*=--- - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----=*# "You're wierd. But that results in creativity." - Crow T. Robot From edg@juno.com Fri Jan 17 02:22:25 1997 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46932-88>; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:21:46 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id VXN22306; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:19:43 EST To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:12:41 PST Subject: Re: Rule 71:5 Message-ID: <19970116.201752.7343.1.edg@juno.com> References: <199701151455.JAA03443@ware.vims.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-27,30-32 From: edg@juno.com Status: RO X-Status: >The next morning our android (who shall be henceforth known as "Al") >was >powered back up (the evil dock supervisor, in a fit of rare charity, >had >decided to give Al a break at nights by shutting him off) to discover >to >his renewed horror that his hamster wheel had been attached to a huge >rotating bin full of numbered balls. Al had been incorporated into a >huge lottery number generator, in the dock supervisor's scheme to rook >lottery players out of their money by giving them random numbers to >play! >Unbeknownst to the supervisor, however, an unknown operative had >replaced >all the balls with the number "42," thereby foiling his scheme. > >Since not everything can go wrong for our poor Al, all rules must >include >something that goes right for him personally (e.g. the nightly break >in this >rule). >-bill > > JUdgement: Valid. Took me a while, but I finally got it. Style: +.5 The new restriction is cool, but the author's own example is a little lame. I did like the subtle introduction of a new device, but thought the effort to foil the plot was too simple. Ed G From dankna@bergen.org Wed Jan 15 18:40:04 1997 Received: from davinci.bergen.org ([168.229.3.2]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with SMTP id <46940-89>; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:39:16 +0000 Received: from [168.229.4.63] by davinci.bergen.org via SMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/951211.SGI) for id NAA14422; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:34:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:34:59 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no From: dankna@bergen.org (Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz)) Subject: Rule 71:6 Status: RO X-Status: >>>>> Seeing the failure of their plot, the lottery number generator was combined with the brain of an unfortunate dock worker to create a huge self-aware mind to serve the purposes of the unscrupulous dock supervisors. As a first task, the Dock Supervisor Class 42 instructed it to find a way to recover from the monetary losses caused by the failure of their recent scheme. The mind had gotten as far as determining that a new scheme would have to have a goal other than the cheating of lowly dock workers in games of chance (because of the fact that all of its random numbers were the same, it tended to get monotonous - and so shall you: nobody may use any numbers not in the bin, in future). It was a mere 42 seconds from arriving at a means for conquering the planet, when a Dock Supervisor Class 42a re-programmed it to eliminate the company's Dock Supervisor Class 42. The mind displayed the time to completion of the goal: 42 minutes. The next valid rule must tell what happened a minute from that time. <<<<< ------------------------------------------- Daniel Knapp Head Programmer dankna@bergen.org FeatherWate Software http://www.bergen.org/~dankna/FWS ------------------------------------------- I think that I shall never see, A poem as lovely as a joke. Indeed - unless the poems fall, I may never see a joke - at all. ------------------------------------------- From edg@juno.com Fri Jan 17 23:39:14 1997 Received: from x4.boston.juno.com ([205.231.101.22]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46931-87>; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:38:31 +0000 Received: (from edg@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RBC16937; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:02:42 EST To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:12:13 PST Subject: Re: Rule 71:4 Message-ID: <19970117.160200.7343.1.edg@juno.com> References: <199701170504.VAA20654@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-8,11-12,20-21,23-25 From: edg@juno.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:02:12 -800 "Ed Murphy" writes: >I hereby appeal this Judgement on the grounds that I consider the >combination of android and hamster wheel a new device, even if we >don't know its purpose. Unfortunately, I feel you have it reversed, the purpose is given, to sustyain the android's vital systems, while the "new device" is unknown. The android, a device from the previous rule, is placed in a hamster wheel, a second device. But no resultant device is named or described. The author claims that by claiming the purpose of the device is to sustain the android vital systems, this provides a de facto definition that the new devioce is a generator. I percieved that these systems could be maintained be hydrauloic pumps, air pumps, a fresh spin cycle (due to the sleeping bag construction of the android), or other non-electrical and electrical periferal devices. The fact that the android operates the hamster wheel to operate un-named support devices is what invalidated this rule. Ed G From particle@servtech.com Sat Jan 18 03:26:25 1997 Received: from cyber1.servtech.com ([199.1.22.8]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46931-85>; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 03:25:53 +0000 Received: from LOCALNAME (lh1.roc.servtech.com [206.106.146.203]) by cyber1.servtech.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA13995 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:25:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:25:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701180325.WAA13995@cyber1.servtech.com> X-Sender: particle@cyber1.servtech.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Fantasy Rules Committee From: Joshua Hall-Bachner Subject: Re: Rule 71:4 Status: RO X-Status: At 10:12 AM 1/17/97 PST, you wrote: >The fact that the android operates the hamster wheel to operate un-named >support devices is what invalidated this rule. The android is not running "un-named support devices," however. E is merely running eir own bodily support devices, whatever such devices may be built into eir body. You are assuming external devices must be involved when, in fact, none are specified. Thus the rule follows 71:2. And Rule 71:3 does not state that you have to explicitly state *what* the new device is...I assumed that doing it implicitly would be acceptable since it allowed for the creation of a story, and since there seems to be precedent for it in the archives. Also: >Unfortunately, >the way you worded it, the hamster wheel _is_ the generator, not a >component that, combined with the android, makes up a generator. I think this is debatable. Without the android, you have an inert wheel which does nothing and creates no electricity. With the android, you have a constantly spinning wheel which generates a constant flow of electricity/energy. When you add animate objects to the equation, these lines begin to blur (or should), for one particular reason: there really is no other way to combine an intelligent, animate object with an inanimate object to create a new object, except to combine it with a "potential device" such as the hamster wheel (one where it does something, but cannot do it without a living being to use as input). I feel that, at least in the case of animate objects, combining them with such potential devices should be an acceptable method of creating a new device. BTW, I really am not doing this just because I'm desperate to have my rule validated, really. :) In fact, the main reason I'm arguing this point now is that (a) after Rule 71:6, we once again have an animate, intelligent "object" created by the previous rule, and (b) I've written a rule 71:7 which I was about to post when I realized that it, too, would be invalid because it also combines the object of the previous rule with such a potential device. Now, I'd like to post my new rule (which brings Al, the Dock Supervisor, and the self-aware mind into direct conflict within the confines of one brain!) but I'm afraid now that it'll also be invalid. I'm also afraid that we'll be sitting around for a looooong time trying to come up with a way to combine this self-aware mind we have on our hands now with another, non-potential device to create something new. /---------------------------Joshua Hall-Bachner---------------------------\ | particle@servtech.com http://www.servtech.com/public/particle/ | |"We all have our idiosyncracies -- maybe thinning hair, or gum disease." | \---- Kowanko, "Will You Come To?" ------ Thank You, And Goodnight. ------/ From ford@mail.bayside.net Wed Jan 22 05:45:36 1997 Received: from windowsnt ([207.226.81.129]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with SMTP id <46942-19254>; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:45:20 +0000 Received: by windowsnt from localhost (router,SLMAILNT V2.2); Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:45:51 Eastern Standard Time Received: by windowsnt from friend-computer (204.31.115.72::mail daemon; unverified,SLMAILNT V2.2); Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:45:50 Eastern Standard Time Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ed Murphy" Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:42:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Status of Current Round??? Reply-to: "Ed Murphy" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <9701220100.AA13741@utkux.utcc.utk.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.50) Message-Id: <19970122014551.0285453f.in@windowsnt> Status: RO X-Status: Doug Chatham wrote: > What is the status of the current round? I believe the round will end on or before January 22 at 18:34:59 UTC if no one submits a rule by then. -- Ed Murphy Time is an illusion; lunchtime, http://www.bayside.net/users/ford/ doubly so. -Ford Prefect From wmmaci@vims.edu Wed Jan 22 15:45:46 1997 Received: from back.vims.edu ([139.70.2.111]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with SMTP id <46941-19257>; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:45:37 +0000 Received: from ware.vims.edu (ware.vims.EDU [139.70.2.122]) by back.vims.edu (8.6.12/) with ESMTP id KAA12580 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:45:27 -0500 From: William Maciejewski Received: (wmmaci@localhost) by ware.vims.edu (8.6.12/) id KAA18237 for frc@nvg.ntnu.no; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:45:33 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:45:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199701221545.KAA18237@ware.vims.edu> To: frc@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Status of Current Round??? Status: RO X-Status: A > > What is the status of the current round? > > I believe the round will end on or before January 22 at 18:34:59 UTC > if no one submits a rule by then. Oops.. I seem to have forgotten. Time's up for me... I think 71:6 was the last rule posted, but I don't see whether or not it was valid. Did I miss one? thanks -bill #*=--- - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----=*# William Maciejewski wmmaci@cs.wm.edu silly & boring homepage: http://cs.wm.edu/~wmmaci/index.html Computer Science grad @ William and Mary / Grad Asst at VIMS "Sleepless": a new progrock show: 90.7 FM Wmsburg VA Sat 2-4pm Heuristics Inc.: improv-sequenced-electronic-ambient-industrial? #*=--- - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----=*# "You're wierd. But that results in creativity." - Crow T. Robot From oerjan@nvg.unit.no Wed Jan 22 16:35:50 1997 Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.68]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.unit.no with ESMTP id <46954-19254>; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:35:36 +0000 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:35:49 +0100 (MET) From: Orjan Johansen Reply-To: Orjan Johansen To: Fantasy Rules Committee Subject: Re: Status of Current Round??? In-Reply-To: <199701221545.KAA18237@ware.vims.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, William Maciejewski wrote: > > > What is the status of the current round? > > > > I believe the round will end on or before January 22 at 18:34:59 UTC > > if no one submits a rule by then. > > Oops.. I seem to have forgotten. Time's up for me... I think 71:6 was the > last rule posted, but I don't see whether or not it was valid. Did I miss > one? I never saw a judgement, so I assume 71:6 became valid by timeout. Which means Dan Knapp is the Winner. Now my question is, will Judge Ed post a summary? Greetings, Ørjan. -- "I don't think USENET is an anarchy. It isn't that well-organised." - Simon Slavin